Hello Shuah, all,
although, I have a customer meeting during the first half of the TSC and can onlyjoin later,I would like to contribute my goal/success ideasg for the year. I believe they also fit to what has been contributed so far.
We have different puzzle pieces within ELISA which we call "work groups". This was well visualized in more than one workshop. Even trials have been made how these work groups should interact. However, I fear that the binding of work groups is still very weak. Use case work groups should contribute to the other work groups and provide input and vise versa. We set goals and give regular reports in TSC meetings where we are within the work group, but we should also report and focus what we have done to serve the other work groups. Which impact does our work make to the other work groups? If we cannot show how how the different groups interact (on engineering not powerpoint level), we will never be able to provide a complete picture. Because one thing is for sure in my perspective: We will need all the existing groups to enable Linux in safety applications.
My proposal and therefore goal is: Make both, the medical and automotive work group use cases, ready to serve as a proper blue print for further use cases during this year. Show where the gaps are, but map existing work packages/artifacts from other groups and link to show how these gaps will be filled. The material generated should show how the work products of all work group interact with each other, and that medical devices and automotive are aligned in the way of documentation, so you can really call results a blueprint. We need to generate the big picture, make on-boarding easier and generate transparency where support is needed by enabling direct "picking up of tasks" from a roadmap and current cycle.
We should also try to reach out to further contributors to get member commitment, but for this we need to have proper material and demands declared.
Best regards,
Philipp
---
Am Mo., 14. Feb. 2022 um 17:24 Uhr schrieb Walt Miner <wminer@... <mailto:wminer@...>>:
I think I am aligned with Elena's goals.  We have been working
towards Goal 1 in the Automotive WG, but progress is slow,
especially given the fact that a number of participants have dropped
out or will be dropping out shortly. I will work with the AGL
community to try to push for more involvement from that community
(aligns with Goal 2) and we have a use case (Instrument Cluster
tell-tale)  that is seemingly simple, but provides a rich set of
implementation details to work through and eventually get to Goal 3.
 I will try to participate in this week's TSC meeting. Generally
AGL has a meeting scheduled at the same time that makes it
impossible for me to attend, but I feel that we are at an important
junction in the ELISA project so I will figure out how to attend the
next few TSC meetings.
Regards,
Walt
Walt Miner
AGL Community Manager
The Linux Foundation
Visit us at:
www.automotivegradelinux.org <http://www.automotivegradelinux.org>
lists.automotivelinux.org <http://lists.automotivelinux.org>
www.linuxfoundation.org <http://www.linuxfoundation.org>
On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 8:52 AM <elana.copperman@...
<mailto:elana.copperman@...>> wrote:
I stand corrected.  Perhaps more accurate:____
/Those who are "ok with Linux as is", /believe that they /don't
really need any by-products of ELISA.   They will continue to do
what they are already doing, /unless we communicate the benefits
and feasibility./.____/
__ __
__ __
*From:* Smith, Jason <Jason.Smith@...
<mailto:Jason.Smith@...>>
*Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2022 3:49 PM
*To:* Elana Copperman <Elana.Copperman@...
<mailto:Elana.Copperman@...>>; Shuah Khan
<skhan@... <mailto:skhan@...>>;
devel@...
*Subject:* RE: [ELISA Technical Community] TSC Meeting Agenda -
February 16 2022____
__ __
*EXTERNAL EMAIL**:*Do not click any links or open any
attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is
safe.____
Hi Elana,____
__ __
Just wanted to respond to one of your comments:____
__ __
/Those who are "ok with Linux as is", don't really need any
by-products of ELISA.   They will continue to do what they are
already doing.____/
__ __
I don’t believe this is entirely true.____
__ __
More clearly communicating potential shortcomings of Linux to
these folks will enable them to better design a system around
Linux to make that overall system safer.____
__ __
*Jason R. Smith, UL-CFSX
<https://www.ul.com/services/functional-safety-certification-and-training-program>*
Principal Engineer, Robots & Control Systems (CMIT)____
/Distinguished Member of Technical Staff____/
--------------------------------------------------
UL LLC
333 Pfingsten Road
Northbrook, IL 60062-2096 US
T: 1.847.664.1352
W: https://www.ul.com <https://www.ul.com>____
__ __
*From:* Elana Copperman <Elana.Copperman@...
<mailto:Elana.Copperman@...>>
*Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2022 1:41 AM
*To:* Smith, Jason <Jason.Smith@...
<mailto:Jason.Smith@...>>; Shuah Khan
<skhan@... <mailto:skhan@...>>;
devel@... <mailto:devel@...>
*Subject:* RE: [ELISA Technical Community] TSC Meeting Agenda -
February 16 2022____
__ __
Thanks, Jason.  I think we are pretty much saying the same
thing, only (as usual in ELISA) from 2 different sides of the
coin.____
Those who are "ok with Linux as is", don't really need any
by-products of ELISA.   They will continue to do what they are
already doing.____
For those who need stricter compliance with the standards, it is
already clear that full compliance will not happen.  So that
some iterative process (similar to what Jason describes) will
bring Linux*closer* to what the safety standards expect, leaving
it up to the integrator to fill in any remaining gaps for
his/her use case.  I don't think ELISA can/should do more; but
even this will be a great contribution.____
__ __
My only real concern is that we need to bring in a broader
spectrum of contributors, so that we can expand our context for
deployment and acceptance.  As Jason says, "I don't know if this
is exactly what the community needs".  The community of Linux
users for safety critical applications is enormous, and we have
lost them (they attended the early workshops but have since
petered out).  We need to hear their voice.____
Any proposal, Jason's or mine or anyone else's, is an iterative
process.  But we need to be moving in a clear direction for what
the world needs.____
Regards____
Elana____
__ __
*From:* Smith, Jason <Jason.Smith@...
<mailto:Jason.Smith@...>>
*Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2022 5:29 AM
*To:* Elana Copperman <Elana.Copperman@...
<mailto:Elana.Copperman@...>>; Shuah Khan
<skhan@... <mailto:skhan@...>>;
devel@... <mailto:devel@...>
*Subject:* RE: [ELISA Technical Community] TSC Meeting Agenda -
February 16 2022____
__ __
*EXTERNAL EMAIL**:*Do not click any links or open any
attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is
safe.____
My goals are quick wins.  There are safety applications using
Linux that either don’t need safety certification or whose
standards allow Linux to be treated as-is, i.e. software of
unknown pedigree.  Just small improvements to Linux or
relatively small additional pieces of information provided with
Linux could offer a lot of value to these developers, allowing
them to build safer products.  Examples: code improvements, new
modules that add or support software safety measures, white
papers, manuals, design guides, fault analyses, reports
(verification, validation, review, etc.), release notes
including known issues, etc.  In a way, this is perhaps a
scaled-down version of Elana’s (3).____
__ __
That being said… I don’t know if this is exactly what the
community needs.____
__ __
I think (if we haven’t done so already) we should go out far and
wide across not only ELISA but Linux developers in general to
find out what they really need.____
__ __
Are there enough developers of safety applications using Linux
that are okay with treating Linux as-is, making it worthwhile to
pursue my stated goal?____
__ __
Or are most folks trying to develop systems for self-driving
cars using Linux and ultimately need compliance with ISO 26262?____
__ __
If the latter is true, start with Elana’s (1).  It’s going to be
a lot of work.____
__ __
Jason____
__ __
*From:* devel@... <mailto:devel@...>
<devel@... <mailto:devel@...>> *On
Behalf Of *elana.copperman via lists.elisa.tech
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 09, 2022 9:37 AM
*To:* Shuah Khan <skhan@...
<mailto:skhan@...>>; devel@...
<mailto:devel@...>
*Subject:* Re: [ELISA Technical Community] TSC Meeting Agenda -
February 16 2022____
__ __
Thanks, Shuah.  Some goals/ideas from my side:____
1. To establish a framework for communication and collaboration
between Linux kernel developers/maintainers, safety experts
and designers/developers of Linux based safety critical
systems.  Without broader representation and communication,
the work products of ELISA cannot have a context for
deployment and acceptance.____
2. ELISA is a project of the Linux Foundation.  To leverage
this umbrella, learn from its strong points, and help to
improve the weaker points towards the long-term goal of
integrating Linux successfully in safety critical systems.____
3. Work products (actual kernel patches) which will support the
original ELISA mission statement:   to define and maintain a
common set of elements, processes and tools that can be
incorporated into Linux-based, safety-critical systems
amenable to safety certification.____
Regards____
Elana____
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*devel@... <mailto:devel@...>
<devel@... <mailto:devel@...>> on
behalf of Shuah Khan <skhan@...
<mailto:skhan@...>>
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 9, 2022 5:20 PM
*To:* devel@... <mailto:devel@...>
<devel@... <mailto:devel@...>>
*Cc:* Shuah Khan <skhan@...
<mailto:skhan@...>>
*Subject:* [ELISA Technical Community] TSC Meeting Agenda -
February 16 2022 ____
____
EXTERNAL EMAIL: Do not click any links or open any attachments
unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.
All,
Let's meet next week to discuss alignment on goals and what success
looks like. Please respond to this thread to add you 1 or 2 items
you consider important to achieve ELISA goals and make the project
successful.
I will compile the items and share the consolidated list before the
meeting.
thanks,
-- Shuah
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