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Re: "Pseudo-DIA" between the Linux Kernel Development Community and its Users - 3/5 Safety for Operating Systems involves functional and quality requirements
John MacGregor <john.macgregor@...>
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards
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John MacGregor Safety, Security and Privacy (CR/AEX4) Robert Bosch GmbH | Postfach 10 60 50 | 70049 Stuttgart | GERMANY | www.bosch.com Tel. +49 711 811-42995 | Mobil +49 151 543 09433 | John.MacGregor@... Sitz: Stuttgart, Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 14000; Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Franz Fehrenbach; Geschäftsführung: Dr. Volkmar Denner, Prof. Dr. Stefan Asenkerschbaumer, Dr. Michael Bolle, Dr. Christian Fischer, Dr. Stefan Hartung, Dr. Markus Heyn, Harald Kröger, Christoph Kübel, Rolf Najork, Uwe Raschke, Peter Tyroller -----Original Message-----Gotta start somewhere.... I really don't know what you're driving at. You'll probably have to give an example.Those turquoise boxes represent the development process allsystem. Maybe I'm flying at too high a level. It doesn't help that 61508 speaks of safety functions and 26262 speaks of safety mechanisms. As such, neither Type A nor Type B are safety requirements. Functional behavour is functional behaviour. If the functional behaviour is related to the functional safety concept, it's safety functionality for me. If the unintended system property violates the functional safety concept, it's safety-related. Otherwise it's not. Requirements related to those behaviours or system properties could be safety requirements, or maybe not. In type B, it's also not clear to me whether you mean that the absence of the behaviour is observable or the behaviour is observable and hasn't been observed. Generally, I can agree to the concepts and terminology of 26262-4 6 (Technical Safety Concept). Perhaps I've been a little sloppy.in the terminology, especially by saying safety requirement when I should have said technical safety requirement. What I was driving at in this section is that I think that there is a point in software development Where it leaves the realm of safety experts and enters the realm of safety laymen. It then becomes general software development under quality control. It's obvious that c is c and the code is just implemented in c, regardless of whether it's being coded for safety-related functionality or not. The question is how much higher that transition can be set. I think that the interface could lie in the technical safety requirements stage (and by extension, the plain old technical requirements stage of general software development). I can live with the distinction you've made between types A and B requirements. I just don't see how it's germane to defining the development interface. I try to avoid the word safety requirement, because it often mixes requirement typeFor my purposes the responsibility for managing safety requirements lies with the system developer, although some real DIAs probably delegate it to the supplier. Another question that seems to come out of left field... but in the end caused me to connect a coupleThe point here is that Linux has always (up to now) been developed asJohn, In your understanding: of dots. My understanding is that the development process group is working on defining a reference development process (not a reference Linux development process) which is as effective as the development processes underlying ISO 26262 and IEC 61508 and demonstrating the Linux development process is equivalent to that reference process [1]. Currently the group is working on defining the current Linux development practice in terms of the development process underlying the two abovementioned standards. This amalgamated process would be the reference process. [1] https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1sp9EGQJ5mgkUtB1CtkbEEM_oiXXHKafF9t2koVFmnz8/edit#slide=id.p1 My understanding is that the activities of the workgroup are limited to those listed above and that subsequent activities will be defined on completion of these tasks. So, no, my understanding is that they are not directly working on building blocks/basis/methods.. etc. that can be attached to anything. Their goal is to demonstrating equivalence. Anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that the difference between previously developed and bespoke developed artefacts is too philosophical to be considered. The same might hold for the difference between potentially safety-related and safety-unrelated areas of the Kernel. I partially addressed my lack of understanding of the group's activities in an e-mail on the list on the 24th of February (Thread: Toolchain / build process), where, in particular, I addressed the role of system integrators and suggested that the group sit down and define a couple of use cases to guide them. Nobody responded. I guess I'm doing that now. So, I guess the following questions emerge: - Is the reference process QM? Or (A)SIL X? - How are safety-related aspects going to be handled, if at all? That is, the (reference development process for) OS functionality used by safety mechanisms and various encapsulation technologies (maybe more...) - What measures and techniques are applicable in the current assessment of the various Linux process areas? - Does the current Linux development process apply to all (relevant) code in the repo? - Perhaps, does the development process play the same role in assuring the integrity of off-the-shelf software that it does for bespoke software? (26262 seems to have that answered, but for other standards?) Aaah... after staring at your question for a while longer and looking at the text passage preceding it, I came up with another interpretation. When I wrote that it might be possible to isolate the safety-related parts of the functionality and attach quality requirements to them, I was thinking that the system integrator would do that. Were you thinking that I was proposing that the workgroup do that? Enjoy your vacation, I will be busy for the rest of this week, and I need to catch upThx. John
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