Looks like folks have been able to self-subscribe to the safety-architecture mailing list.
A final reminder to please complete the meeting date/time poll by 12noon ET/6pm CET, Friday, February 14th. We will aim for the first meeting to kick off next week.
--
Min Yu
Operations Manager The Linux Foundation +1(530) 902-6464 (m)
---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Min Yu<myu@...> Date: Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 1:55 PM Subject: ELISA Safety Architecture Working Group To: <devel@...>
Dear all,
We're forming the Safety Architecture Working Group. The focus of this working group is to determine critical Linux subsystems and components in supporting safety functions, associated scalable architectural conditions of use and possible enhancements in the code.
If you're interested in getting involved in this group's work and would like to follow along the conversation, please join the safety architecture group mailing list. Instructions on how to join are below:
Click on Subgroups to the left and this will display the list of available subgroups for ELISA
Navigate to the safety architecture page
Click +Join This Group toward the near bottom of the page and this will add you to the group.
If you have trouble please let me know and I can add you directly.
This group will have a weekly virtual meeting to start soon. Please complete the meeting date/time poll by 5pm ET this Friday, February 7th to help us determine the best meeting time. We hope to get the first meeting scheduled for this coming week.
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I have both directly sent calendar invite to those who participated in the poll and scheduled the meeting using the mailing list tool's calendar feature here: https://lists.elisa.tech/g/safety-architecture/calendar. All subscribers of the safety architecture group will receive a meeting reminder a day before the meeting. You may also consider subscribing to the calendar feed, which is at the bottom of the group's calendar link, and add the feed to your calendar yourself. Multiple options/places for you to find the meeting information and stay informed and plan in advance.
We look forward to your participation in this group.
Regards,
Min
--
Min Yu
Operations Manager The Linux Foundation +1(530) 902-6464 (m)
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First of all welcome to the Safety Architecture WG: today we'll have our first weekly sync-up.
In today's meeting I would like to go over a slightly modified version of the deck I presented in the last Brussels workshop to discuss about the proposed WG strategy and get further feedbacks. Possibly I would also refine the list of tasks between ww08 and ww09 we can start assigning owners.
Thanks Gab
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Please remember to review the deck before next meeting (see the minutes for the deck location).
NOTE: Unfortunately I missed to capture the participants list. So please could you please edit the minutes and add your name if you took part to the meeting?
Thanks again Gab
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Please remember to review the deck before next meeting (see the minutes for the deck location).
NOTE: Unfortunately I missed to capture the participants list. So please could you please edit the minutes and add your name if you took part to the meeting?
From: safety-architecture@... <safety-architecture@...>
On Behalf Of Min Yu Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 9:35 PM To: Paoloni, Gabriele <gabriele.paoloni@...>; safety-architecture@... Subject: Re: [safety-architecture] ww08 Minutes
I exported the Zoom participants and added them into the minutes doc.
Min
--
Min Yu
Operations Manager
The Linux Foundation
+1(530) 902-6464 (m)
Please remember to review the deck before next meeting (see the minutes for the deck location).
NOTE: Unfortunately I missed to capture the participants list. So please could you please edit the minutes and add your name if you took part to the meeting?
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With respect to the GDrive area of the safety arch wg it seems that every time somebody tries to access the docs shared there I need to approve as per email below (one of the many).
Can you please advise on:
ELISA policy on how to set the sharing settings in GDrive
What to do to avoid all these notifications
It seems that people do not experience this problem in the other WGs
Many Thanks
Gab
From: Menno de Graaf (via Google Drive) <men<xxxxxxxxx>gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 2, 2020 7:49 AM To: Paoloni, Gabriele <gabriele.paoloni@...> Subject: Safety_Architecture_WG_Proposal_ww10.2.pptx - Request for access
menno<xxxxxxxx>@gmail.com is requesting access to the following presentation:
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I see slide 11 has been updated since last week and now no longer appears to label the two top boxes as sitting on top of glibc. However the right-hand text still talks about reading back the framebuffer and calculating a CRC, which I had pointed out would seem to involve the whole drm (Display Rendering Manager) subsystem of the kernel, given that you speak of the Display Engine composing the framebuffer further above, seemingly ruling out a trivial/static simple-framebuffer or efifb handled by the bootloader.
My concern therefore still is that the attendees of our WG calls may not all have sufficiently deep levels of drm API knowledge to reason about safety in that particularly complex example. Just the GEM allocation and buffering layer is complex enough in itself for non-experts to have troubles debugging it.
Instead, what was stated on the call was that the CRC operation would be done in specialized external hardware. However, that's not what your slide says - it lists it as an action of the Monitor application as if it were an open syscall followed by read syscalls plus in-memory calculation (in addition to the watchdog open/ioctl operations).
If you want to do it without special hardware, maybe we could just speak about toggling a gpio pin for an LED notification instead, as a much simpler kernel subsystem? (gpio, ignoring pinctrl for configuration)
Regards, Andreas
[max 10 min]: Reference HW Architecture Definition – next steps [rest of the time]: Telltale system diagram (from Stefano Dellosa - Intel) Minutes of the previous meeting have been placed in the usual location: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1h6b7gjLAR5LbXuSfaPzHyHEr3XYUOWkLdvJdmDX_BDQ Thanks Gab -----Original Appointment----- *From:* myu@... <myu@...> *Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2020 8:11 PM *To:* myu@...; antonio.priore@...; artem_mygaiev@...; dposner@...; mbeltran@...; Gurvitz, Eli (Mobileye); Iacaruso, Maurizio; hartkopp@...; Paoloni, Gabriele; jochen.kall@...; tglx@...; Copperman, Elana (Mobileye); slotosch@...; afaerber@...; lukas.bulwahn@...; yasushi.ando@...; Kate Stewart; Paccapeli, Roberto; doris_wild@...; safety-architecture@...; christopher.temple@...; aymeric.rateau@... *Subject:* Invitation: ELISA Safety-Architecture Weekly Meeting @ Weekly from 5am to 6am on Tuesday (PST) (gabriele.paoloni@...) *When:* martedì 3 marzo 2020 07:00-08:00 America/Chicago. *Where:* *You have been invited to the following event.* ELISA Safety-Architecture Weekly Meeting When
Weekly from 5am to 6am on Tuesday Pacific Time - Los Angeles Calendar
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I see slide 11 has been updated since last week and now no longer appears to label the two top boxes as sitting on top of glibc. However the right-hand text still talks about reading back the framebuffer and calculating a CRC, which I had pointed out would seem to involve the whole drm (Display Rendering Manager) subsystem of the kernel, given that you speak of the Display Engine composing the framebuffer further above, seemingly ruling out a trivial/static simple-framebuffer or efifb handled by the bootloader.
Mmmm I dont' think slide11 has ever been updated since it was presented in the ELISA workshop in Brussels. However the idea for tomorrow is to present a more detailed diagram; maybe based on this we can have a deeper analysis and refine it further also including your feedbacks
My concern therefore still is that the attendees of our WG calls may not all have sufficiently deep levels of drm API knowledge to reason about safety in that particularly complex example. Just the GEM allocation and buffering layer is complex enough in itself for non-experts to have troubles debugging it.
My idea for tomorrow is to get initial high level feedbacks and suggestion. Then as/if we decide to continue with such use case we will need to have a dedicated taskforce including appropriate experts
Instead, what was stated on the call was that the CRC operation would be done in specialized external hardware. However, that's not what your slide says - it lists it as an action of the Monitor application as if it were an open syscall followed by read syscalls plus in-memory calculation (in addition to the watchdog open/ioctl operations).
In the call it was stated that usually such use case is supported by having the safety monitor (CRC checker) implemented in a dedicated ASIL rated HW; hence it is obvious that any failure mode of the telltale renderer is detected by the monitor itself. By following this typical approach however Linux is not assigned with any safety requirements as all of these will be placed on the external safety monitor. Here I am putting the monitor side by side with the telltale rendering app to have Linux assigned with safety reqs
If you want to do it without special hardware, maybe we could just speak about toggling a gpio pin for an LED notification instead, as a much simpler kernel subsystem? (gpio, ignoring pinctrl for configuration)
The principle here is that the rendering app is not assigned with safety reqs; Instead the safety monitor is. If tomorrow we realize that this is a too complex scenario to start with we can possibly fall back to a simple safety app as you suggested (during the call we also mentioned a simple app relying on EDAC to detect HW failures)
Many thanks for your feedbacks
Gab
Regards, Andreas
[max 10 min]: Reference HW Architecture Definition – next steps
[rest of the time]: Telltale system diagram (from Stefano Dellosa - Intel)
Minutes of the previous meeting have been placed in the usual location:
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Just an FYI - the weekly call for the safety-architecture working group may shift to an hour later for some of you starting from March 10 due to the start of Daylight Saving Time this weekend.
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Dial by your location +1 646 558 8656 US (New York) +1 669 900 6833 US (San Jose) 877 369 0926 US Toll-free 855 880 1246 US Toll-free +1 647 558 0588 Canada 855 703 8985 Canada Toll-free Meeting ID: 323 975 221 Find your local number: https://zoom.us/u/aeJU7QC44x
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Thanks for the clarification. Being a Canadian coming from the Eastern time zone, I can confirm that
9-10am Eastern Daylight Saving time would correspond to 2-3pm Central European Standard time, the usual time slot for the telco.
Just FYI… Life is strange at the moment….
-Because of the Corona virus, this is the one day that I’m working in the office this month
-For whatever reason, we have e-mail, but no internet in the office at the moment
è I can’t verify your link
-Your reminder doesn’t change the appointment in my Outlook calendar
-My calendar therefore still shows 1-2pm (Central European Time)
-But *I* know that the appointment is really for 2-3pm
I’m forwarding this mail to the architecture mailing list. I think we’ll have to establish a consensus on how to interpret the appointment. Then there’s only
the process group and the weekly sync meetings….
Sitz: Stuttgart, Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 14000;
Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Franz Fehrenbach; Geschäftsführung: Dr. Volkmar Denner,
Prof. Dr. Stefan Asenkerschbaumer, Dr. Michael Bolle, Dr. Christian Fischer, Dr. Stefan Hartung,
Dr. Markus Heyn, Harald Kröger, Christoph Kübel, Rolf Najork, Uwe Raschke, Peter Tyroller
From: Min Yu <myu@...>
Sent: Montag, 9. März 2020 14:04 To: MacGregor John (CR/AEX4) <John.MacGregor@...> Subject: Re: [safety-architecture] Safety-Architecture Working Group Call Schedule
Thanks, John, for reaching out. Yes the time change creates some confusion.
Because I also scheduled the call/sent invite via google calendar, I updated the google calendar. On my google calendar it's showing 9-10am Eastern Daylight Saving time.
Let me know if this clears up the confusion.
Min
--
Min Yu
Operations Manager
The Linux Foundation
+1(530) 902-6464 (m)
On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 9:26 AM, MacGregor John (CR/AEX4) John.MacGregor@... wrote:
Hi Min,
In the timeframe when European and American daylight savings time differ, my appointments are showing one hour earlier than usual. This would be consistent with the appointments
following the American shift to DST.
ØI will adjust the google calendar invite which is separate from the calendar in groups.io.
Have you already adjusted the calendar? If so, could you clarify what the time is at which we are intended to meet?
(I, personally, don’t have any problems one way or the other. I just have to know)
Sitz: Stuttgart, Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 14000;
Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Franz Fehrenbach; Geschäftsführung: Dr. Volkmar Denner,
Prof. Dr. Stefan Asenkerschbaumer, Dr. Michael Bolle, Dr. Christian Fischer, Dr. Stefan Hartung,
Dr. Markus Heyn, Harald Kröger, Christoph Kübel, Rolf Najork, Uwe Raschke, Peter Tyroller
Just an FYI - the weekly call for the safety-architecture working group may shift to an hour later for some of you starting from March 10 due to the start of Daylight Saving Time this weekend.
I am confirming the time for Development Process working group and the general weekly sync meeting schedule.
The best way is for people to familiarize with how to subscribe to live calendar feed on groups.io to stay in sync with the time change and any other meeting changes. But I don't know how comfortable people are with doing that and that is why I also sent a separate google calendar invite.
But if you want to try subscribing to the calendar feed, here are the instructions:
Method A) Subscribe to ALL of the Groups.iolist calendars you are subscribed to at once
Thanks for the clarification. Being a Canadian coming from the Eastern time zone, I can confirm that 9-10am Eastern Daylight Saving time would correspond to 2-3pm Central European Standard time, the usual time slot for the telco.
Just FYI… Life is strange at the moment….
-Because of the Corona virus, this is the one day that I’m working in the office this month
-For whatever reason, we have e-mail, but no internet in the office at the moment è I can’t verify your link
-Your reminder doesn’t change the appointment in my Outlook calendar
-My calendar therefore still shows 1-2pm (Central European Time)
-But *I* know that the appointment is really for 2-3pm
I’m forwarding this mail to the architecture mailing list. I think we’ll have to establish a consensus on how to interpret the appointment. Then there’s only the process group and the weekly sync meetings….
Sitz: Stuttgart, Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 14000; Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Franz Fehrenbach; Geschäftsführung: Dr. Volkmar Denner, Prof. Dr. Stefan Asenkerschbaumer, Dr. Michael Bolle, Dr. Christian Fischer, Dr. Stefan Hartung, Dr. Markus Heyn, Harald Kröger, Christoph Kübel, Rolf Najork, Uwe Raschke, Peter Tyroller
From: Min Yu <myu@...> Sent: Montag, 9. März 2020 14:04 To: MacGregor John (CR/AEX4) <John.MacGregor@...> Subject: Re: [safety-architecture] Safety-Architecture Working Group Call Schedule
Thanks, John, for reaching out. Yes the time change creates some confusion.
Because I also scheduled the call/sent invite via google calendar, I updated the google calendar. On my google calendar it's showing 9-10am Eastern Daylight Saving time.
Let me know if this clears up the confusion.
Min
--
Min Yu
Operations Manager The Linux Foundation +1(530) 902-6464 (m)
On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 9:26 AM, MacGregor John (CR/AEX4) John.MacGregor@... wrote:
Hi Min,
In the timeframe when European and American daylight savings time differ, my appointments are showing one hour earlier than usual. This would be consistent with the appointments following the American shift to DST.
ØI will adjust the google calendar invite which is separate from the calendar in groups.io.
Have you already adjusted the calendar? If so, could you clarify what the time is at which we are intended to meet?
(I, personally, don’t have any problems one way or the other. I just have to know)
Sitz: Stuttgart, Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 14000; Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Franz Fehrenbach; Geschäftsführung: Dr. Volkmar Denner, Prof. Dr. Stefan Asenkerschbaumer, Dr. Michael Bolle, Dr. Christian Fischer, Dr. Stefan Hartung, Dr. Markus Heyn, Harald Kröger, Christoph Kübel, Rolf Najork, Uwe Raschke, Peter Tyroller
Just an FYI - the weekly call for the safety-architecture working group may shift to an hour later for some of you starting from March 10 due to the start of Daylight Saving Time this weekend.
